with Kelli Thompson
Women’s Leadership Coach, Author, and Speaker
One of the challenges impacting people’s career progression is confidence. I’ve noticed this come up across genders and ages with our clients at Canada Career Counselling, and more so with women than men. I was curious to further explore this “confidence gap”, and was delighted to bring Kelli Thompson onto Where Work Meets Life. She is the author of Closing the Confidence Gap: Boost Your Peace, Your Potential, and Your Paycheck, which shares strategies around taming our inner critic and closing the confidence gap that may be getting in the way of our career progression.
Although the confidence gap tends to impact women more than men, it’s important to note that anyone can face confidence challenges in their career. For example, minority groups may look or identify differently than the majority group which is more often in charge. In turn, they may face confidence challenges that impact their career opportunities and progression.
Episode 59 | Closing the Confidence Gap to Thrive in Your Career
What led you to focus on closing the confidence gap for women?
Kelli Thompson explains how it was her own lived experience that led to her passion for this topic. She grew up working in banking and finance in the early 2000s, which was male-dominated. She explains how it was not uncommon for her to be one of the only women in the room. “I had an a-ha moment at around age 30. I was sitting in an all-day meeting [feeling] frustrated with the conversation going in circles. Hearing from the same people [the men] over and over again. The leaders were men but the room was 50/50 men and women. We needed the women to speak up.”
Kelli admitted she was one of the women who did not speak up and decided to help to pave the way for this equality of voice. She asked herself: “Why do I feel this sense of hesitation that men around me don’t seem to feel?” She noticed subtle differences between how men and women would present themselves and negotiate for pay. She explained how she wanted to build more equity between genders and help women ask for the money and positions they deserved.
Tell us about your book: Closing the Confidence Gap: why did you write it and for whom?
Kelli explains how she “wrote the book that I needed to read!” She wishes she had this book when she was working in corporate America. The book stemmed from a training course she created based on her women’s leadership program focused on building clarity and confidence.
Kelli chose to focus specifically on women as there are a lot of systemic issues still at play in organizations that cause women problems. She notes some of these key challenges facing women in the workplace:
- The invisible workload: Women take on an extra two hours a day in unpaid labour, which shows up as “non-promotable tasks” (i.e., tasks that are over and above one’s job and do not pay extra, such as planning parties or leading the corporate fundraiser).
- When we see women taking on these unpaid tasks more than men they get more exhausted. Yet, these tasks do not show up in performance reviews or contribute to promotions.
- In contrast, men are more often tasked with strategic projects.
- Women are leaving the workplace because they are not being promoted, and being called “non-strategic”, yet they have not been given the opportunities to develop strategic skillsets.
Why does this matter? Kelli notes how turnover is expensive. Further, the data show that organizations are more profitable when they have diverse leadership teams. “Lack of diversity in your leadership team is expensive. This impacts the health and vitality of your organization.”
Talking about Money and the Weather
“Talking about money should be as easy as talking about the weather,” explains Kelli, who wanted to be a weather person growing up. She shares a couple of tips:
- We are so lucky that there is now so much salary data out there (e.g., government websites, free resources like Payscale.com). You can find out the average salary for the type of job in your area to help you in negotiating what your skills and experience are worth.
- Think about the value proposition you bring to a position. What results have you achieved and how did it help the organization? Make sure you are clear on these outcomes.
- Then ask for what you want and wait for the response.
Kelli’s book includes steps to walk through pay-related negotiations.
“Lack of diversity in your leadership team is expensive. This impacts the health and vitality of your organization.” Kelli Thompson
Maternity Leaves and Career Development
This topic reminded me of our 3-year research project at Canada Career Counselling on maternity leave career transitions, which led to two books to help women and organizations navigate their careers through maternity leaves (Making it Work! How to Effectively Navigate Maternity Leave Career Transitions: An Employee’s Guide – CERIC).
Kelli and I discussed the huge contrast between maternity leaves in the US and Canada. In the US, women get 6 weeks of job-protected leave (holding their job or one that’s equivalent) in organizations of over 50 employees. However, it’s left up to the employer whether this is paid. If a woman goes back to work with a 6-week-old infant, how is she doing physically and emotionally? She is sleep deprived, and not likely to show up as her most confident self.
In stark contrast, in Canada maternity leaves are supplemented by employment insurance (EI) and are now up to 18 months of job-protected leave.
What is your process for reframing parts of ourselves that we’ve been told are flaws?
In Closing the Confidence Gap is a section around reframing aspects of ourselves that we have been told are flaws but may actually be strengths. Kelli explains how “people always told me I was too direct.” Other common things women are described as are too sensitive or too emotional.
“…I remember moving into a human resources role and the chief that I was supporting had made a comment. He’s like, you know, you’re really direct and people may not know how to handle you! And I remember thinking to myself, it kind of just came full circle like, oh my gosh, I’ve always been called too direct. And so many of the women that I work with have always been called something: too bossy, too assertive, too sensitive, too emotional. And I think … systemically this really plays into a lot of gender likability biases…” Kelli Thompson
Kelli explains how men are also expected to show up and be a certain way. For example, they may be expected not to lead with sensitivity. For any gender, Kelli explains how it is energetically exhausting when you have to reel in your true self. There is an energetic toll to constantly self-censoring.
Tell us more about the imposter monster and taming the inner critic women and other minority groups may experience?
We discuss fear and imposter syndrome. Kelli describes how your fears and doubts when it comes to making an ask (such as a raise) will never fully go away. “There are a group of people who don’t feel any doubt: they are sociopaths. Having a bit of doubt and nerves is normal!”
“There are a group of people who don’t feel any doubt: they are sociopaths. Having a bit of doubt and nerves is normal!” Kelli Thompson
What is one book and one podcast you’d recommend?
So Money with Farnoosh Torabi podcast A fascinating podcast about the psychology of money in our lives.
“My Life in Full” by Indra Nooyi An inspiring story of a woman who immigrated from India to the US. It explores her journey into leadership and becoming a Fortune 100 CEO. The book includes calls for advocacy and changes in leadership.
If you could have one wish for a better world, what would it be?
That there were more women in the rooms where decisions are made.
About Kelli Thompson:
Kelli Thompson is a women’s leadership coach and speaker who helps women advance to the rooms where decisions are made. She has coached and trained hundreds of women to trust themselves, lead with more confidence, and create a career they love.
She is the founder of the Clarity & Confidence Women’s Leadership Program, and a Stevie Award® winner for Women in Business— Coach of the Year. Kelli holds an MBA, has served as an adjunct management professor, and has more than ten years of senior leadership experience in financial services and technology organizations. Her thought leadership has been featured in Forbes, MarketWatch, Parents Magazine, HuffPost, and Working Mother.
Kelli is from Omaha, Nebraska, and her favorite roles are wife to Jason and mom to Hailey.
Learn more about Kelli at www.kelliraethompson.com.
